Joey Muré is the co-founder and partner at Wealth Without Wall Street, an online community dedicated to re-educating business owners and families about how money really works. 

In this episode Joey discusses how Wall Street’s traditional mindset places Americans’ money at risk and restricts their financial freedom

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How to implement the Infinite Banking Concept
Redefining freedom as income greater than monthly expenses
How do define your financial vision
The five-step process of wealth without Wall Street – Vision, Infinite Banking, Investor DNA, Tax Strategies, and Entity Structuring and Estate Planning

Joey is a serial entrepreneur, co founding businesses like Wealth Without Wall Street and Wake up In Birmingham. He’s the co author of the soon to be released “Wealth Without Wall Street, 3 Steps to Freedom Through Passive Income.

Joey got his start in the financial world as a mortgage loan originator shortly after graduating from college in 2003, and now reports on his own passive income portfolio each month which has grown from $2,500 in July 2020 to well over $50,000 PER MONTH today.

Joey’s email
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Check out the Wealth Without Wall Street podcast
Connect with Joey on LinkedIn 

To learn more about investment opportunities, join the Cityside Capital Investor Club

Full Transcript

Joey Mure (00:00):

The only formula that you need to know and Wall Street will try to make you think that it’s something so much more complex than this. But the very formula that you need to know is passive income greater than monthly expenses is freedom.

Greg Lyons (00:24):

Welcome to the Passive Income Brothers podcast.

Tim Lyons (00:27):

Here we take the fear out of real estate investing using real life stories of everyday successful investors.

Greg Lyons (00:32):

Let’s Go.

Tim Lyons (00:36):

Welcome to the episode of the Passive Income Brothers podcast. My name is Tim Lyons, and today I’m joined by two absolute rock stars, one of which being my brother. Greg, how you doing today, buddy?

Greg Lyons (00:45):

Tim, I’m doing fantastic. I wish our listeners could have the access to the banter we have before, also some positive, mostly negative, but it really gets your day going. It really absolutely does.

Tim Lyons (01:02):

Listen, I want to invite everybody to hop onto YouTube after hearing this on a podcast and just check out Greg’s hair Day today. I mean, he is having a fabulous hair day, but listen, we have a great guest here.

Greg Lyons (01:12):

I am a monster when it comes to hair. I mean, I am just second to none. And for the people that don’t watch YouTube, I am hanging on for dear life. But keep going, Tim.

Tim Lyons (01:23):

So we wanted to welcome to the show Joey Mure, who is the co-founder and partner at Wealth Without Wall Street, an online community that seeks to reeducate business owners and families on exactly how money truly works. Wall Street is not just a street in New York, according to Joey, that puts Americans money at risk, but is also a commonly taught mindset. Wealth without Wall Street exists to help people who want to become financially free without ever having to invest through Wall Street or becoming debt-free. And Joey, I love that because Greg and I, we’ve been on a journey. So many of our listeners have been on a journey for financial education, financial freedom, debt freedom, passive income, stacking up passive income. How do I extricate myself so I can have more time with my family? So could you start off with something about your behind the scenes journey and how you got to where you are tonight?

Joey Mure (02:15):

Oh man. I could go as deep or as wide as you want on this, but it really comes down to none of us have had a true education in terms of financial freedom unless you are just blessed to have family members who had already kind of cracked the code. This is not something you’re going to get in your government school system. It’s not going to be something that they teach you in college, your master’s. I mean, none of these things solved this. And the reason is, is because there’s too many people that will benefit from you staying in the dark. I mean, at the end of the day, I’m not a conspiracy theorist, it’s just what it is. Wall Street makes a ton of money by people blindly giving them up access and control of their capital, and they want to hold onto it as long as possible, make as much money off of it as possible and give you back just enough to keep you happy.


And I learned that through being on the banker side. I was actually in the mortgage business for 11 years and I started learning that there’s a lot of tactics that even the mortgage and banking industries use to kind of confuse you in the sense that you would then leave your money with them and or give them more of your cash flows every month in order that they can make the most money off of it. And it wasn’t until 2009 I got introduced to this concept called infinite banking through reading a book called Become Your Own Banker by Nelson Nash, that it’s kind of like that is the point that I can look back to and say, man, that’s where everything changed. That’s where the light bulb came on. And I realized I had been kind of going across the country in the wrong direction and I had to make 180 degree turn and start making some things happen to get to where I really wanted to be.

Greg Lyons (04:15):

That’s so interesting. A lot of people that we talked to have a similar journey, and Tim and I took a similar journey at some point where we were just thinking to ourselves, there’s got to be more, got to be more than the accumulation model, which so many people live under. Let me throw some money into my 4 0 1 k, accumulate as much as possible and pray like anything that we’re going to have enough when we retire. And it’s really just delaying any sort of gratification until the end, until maybe your health isn’t as good, your kids aren’t little anymore and all those different things. And I think Main Street, wall Street teaches us dollar cost averaging, and they don’t even really teach us that. They really just teach us, throw money into a 4 0 1 K and you accumulate as much as possible. If you start diving into it a little more, you learn about dollar cost averaging, which is putting a little bit of money away at all times. So when the light bulb finally hit for you, Joey, how did you take action?

Joey Mure (05:23):

Well, so the first thing I did was I started implementing that concept, the infinite banking concept, which at the very baseline, if you’re not familiar with it, it is basically taking capital from those places that you just mentioned, 4 0 1 Ks IRAs, 5 29 plans, all the alphabet soup that Wall Street and big bankers have taught us that are to our benefit that actually lock money away. Those things keep money out of our control today for this future hope. As you just very succinctly laid out, Greg and I started to see those things as prison. Those things are keeping me from getting a financial freedom today because at the end of the day, the only formula that you need to know and Wall Street will try to make you think that it’s something so much more complex than this, but the very formula that you need to know is passive income greater than monthly expenses is freedom.


If you have not thought about that, and again, this isn’t something that we coined, it was Robert Kiyosaki’s of the world and probably somebody before him. But at the end of the day, if you just kind of picture what that would look like, if you have passive income that exceeds your monthly expenses, money is coming into your mailbox or into your bank account that you don’t go to work for, what does your calendar look like? There is literally nobody dictating to you what goes on that calendar except you. And right now you may be thinking, I don’t even know how to imagine that because my whole life, someone has dictated to me where I’m supposed to be, what I’m supposed to be doing. And if I don’t do those things, I’m fired. Right? So imagine for a moment that you literally have created mailbox money, money coming in that you’re not going to work for.


You can literally take your daughter to school, pick her up in the afternoon, you can go and investigate deals that you really wanted to spend time on and go and do the due diligence that required. You could go and network with other investors that are like-minded like this is your lifestyle that you maybe have never even considered. But when I got really clear on that, it just became very obvious what I needed to do. In fact, my mentor, Nelson Nash, the guy that wrote that book I told you about, he has something very, very wise. He said, if you know what’s going on, you’ll know what to do. And there’s some people that would say, well, Julie Man, 4 0 1 Ks IRAs, what about the rate of return? What about the tax benefits that you get and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But once you get clear that passive income has to exceed monthly expenses, the rate of return in my 4 0 1 k has literally no bearing because it absolutely keeps me from getting passive income today.


It locks it up until I’m in my sixties and I don’t know about you guys, don’t look like you’re in your fifties, late fifties, significantly younger, and you say, I want financial freedom today. So that immediately tells me I have to start putting capital into a place I can access and I could control today. For me, that was using the infinite banking concept and we put these in structured whole life policies that I can access to capital today and that continue grow. There’s a whole lot of details behind that, but that’s non-issue. The bigger thing is I got clear on the goal, I got clear on the urgency of today, and I started directing my capital and my cash flows to put me in the control box and not to put Wall Street or anybody else. That was the first step.

Tim Lyons (09:18):

Well, Joey, I’m about to start doing some pushups on camera and I’m going to save everybody the experience of that and I’m just going to start talking instead. But what I love about what you just said is look, everybody starts from somewhere and listen, I’m 41, so thank you for telling me I don’t look 50. Greg’s a little older than that, but he’s not quite 50 yet either. So thank you for that. I appreciate it. But listen, it took us a while to hear the pop. That was our heads coming out of our rear ends because what we do is we always follow the herd, right? There’s safety, there’s security, there’s the herd mentality. Well, if everybody has a job and everybody has a 4 57 or a 4 0 1 K or a 4 0 3 B or whatever, four oh something that you want to talk about, then that’s what I should be doing, what everybody else is doing, right?


There’s a sense of herd mentality, security, safety within that. And we don’t want to go outside the box because people might talk about us or it’s not popular at the cocktail party or whatever. And I think that right there holds so many people back. So I love when you talk about your investor, D N A, knowing what your goals are, and Greg and I talk about all the time, there’s a simple equation, but now there’s two equations I want to incorporate into our strategy. Greg, Joey just talked about passive income greater than expenses equals freedom, right? That’s an awesome equation. The other one that Greg and I talked to talk about is education times action equals your results. So we move into education. So I’m in my late thirties, I am feeling it. I got three little girls, I’m a New York City firefighter, I’m an ER nurse, I’m putting the time, I’m trading time for money and I’m feeling it.


My kids are feeling it, my wife is feeling it. And that’s when I had to get financially educated. How does money work? How does Wall Street work? How do my retirement accounts work? How can I create passive income? How do I start if I have no capital, how do I start if I have a little bit of capital and each step of the way, Joey, you can throw your hands up and say, ah, this is too hard. I don’t understand it. Taxes, insurance, my whole life, infinite banking, there’s just too many things. I got shiny object syndrome. What do I do? I don’t know, which is why I love wealth without Wall Street because there’s a community around there. You have people you can talk to, you have the podcast, you have resources. So can you take us now through what is your process at Wealth Without Wall Street? Say Tim Lyons calls you and says, I’m the guy I was four years ago. What does that process look like and what are some of the things that they can look forward to?

Joey Mure (11:52):

Oh, that’s a great question and I’ll tell you this. We learned this by looking backwards at what Now, when I say us, I’m talking about me and my business partner, Russ Morgan. He was kind of my coach to begin with, and we did some things that we weren’t even a hundred percent sure that were in the right direction. But then when we look back, we said, oh, what did we do that was so impactful? Well, the first thing is what I just mentioned. We got really clear on the vision. What is financial freedom for us? How would that actually look if we were financially, what would we use our time to do? In fact, when you join our community, one of the first questions we ask you is what will you be doing when you’re financially free? And it just challenges you, man, start to dream.


Because Tim, when you mentioned where you were in the middle of your late thirties, you were stuck and potentially had stopped dreaming. I mean, if you’re like everybody else, which that herd mentality will teach you to stop dreaming because it’s kind of like, eh, I got to keep doing what I’m doing. I’m just going to stay, put my head down. I’m not too smart to figure these things out. Someone else has gone to school to do this money management stuff. I’m just going to give my money to them and hope for the best. Once you realize that, man, your vision includes spending more time with that family that you say you worked so hard for and then you leave all day and you see that you wake up one day and they’re like 12 years old and you’re like, what the heck happened to the last 12 years?


Then you get motivated to say, I have to figure this out. In fact, I don’t know where you guys stand spiritually, but I see it as a stewardship item. There’s everything in my life that God’s given me and put into my kind of control he’s given to me. What am I going to do with that? And your money is no different. If you just pissed away all your time, you would not be stewarding your time well. Well, the same thing is true with money. If I’m just giving it up to somebody else and hoping for the best, I’m not stewarding that money well at all. And so anyways, that’s just a personal kind of thought process that I have. But the first step is getting vision, right? The second step, as I mentioned, is getting your money in the right location. So for us, infinite banking is just a critical step in the right process because it puts you in the driver’s seat and it gives you the opportunity to now say, I have access to cash.


What am I going to do with it? Because whenever you’ll have money in 4 0 1 Ks, IRAs 5 29 pleads, you shut that part of your brain off because you have nothing. You can’t affect the outcome. When money is in my 4 0 1 k, all I can do is at the beginning of each year, I can choose which E T F it’s invested in or which mutual fund it’s invested in. That’s it. I have no ability. In fact, I’ll just share a really quick story. When I was in the mortgage business, I had deals come across my desk all the time in the real estate world. And you know what? This was literally a thought process I had. And maybe you as you’re listening to this, had the same one. That sounds like a great deal for someone else because I didn’t think I had access to cash and I had put all of it away in someone else’s control.


Meanwhile, I had hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting in these qualified plans that I easily could have taken advantage of some of those deals and I didn’t because I didn’t have access. So anyways, first step vision, second step, infinite banking. The third step is figuring out what sort of investor you are. How do I see the world? What are the investments that are going to line up with me, my personality type, right? A lot of people know their disc profile or their Myers-Briggs or their Enneagram or whatever you choose to look at, but how does that align with what investments would go well for you? And so that we developed a whole process called the investor d n A profile that helps people take all these wonderful ideas you guys are sharing on your show. We’re sharing a bunch of cool things on our show, and it brings it down into what are the one or two strategies that I need to focus on right now that I’ll have the greatest probability of success with?


Because just because I have started a land flipping business or a short-term rental business, or I’ve done syndications or I’ve done crypto mining or whatever those cases may be, that does not mean it’s going to be successful for you. And just because you guys are so into multifamily syndications, maybe the next person would not really line up well with that, even though it’s a good investment, just doesn’t really align with them vice versa. So that’s the third step. And then the fourth step is really tax strategies and the fifth step entity structuring and estate planning. And so that’s the five pillars that we call our right thing grid, and we walk people through that through our coaches.

Greg Lyons (17:08):

Well, Joey, this is so well said, and it’s something that we really, really align with. And just to kind of back up something you said is I think when people start thinking about investments outside of their 4 0 1 K, like you said, what mutual fund should I throw into? Should I switch that? Should I switch the allocation up a little bit? Sometimes when people get outside of that, they start thinking about, Hey, I don’t have any money. I don’t have access to cash, and it shuts it down right away. Hey, I’ll just go back into my 4 0 1 k. I’ll just go back into mutual funds. And it’s just easier that way. That’s what everyone else is doing. Like you were saying. I think when you get involved with Cityside Capital Wealth without Wall Street, you kind of start thinking of how do I stack the odds in my favor for not only success in the longterm, but success right now? How do I become financially free right now? And along that same vain, what kind of asset classes or what kind of investing thesis has worked really well for you over the last couple of years, and where do you see yourself going with your investments into the next 12, 24 months?

Joey Mure (18:23):

Great question. And by the way, before I answer that, I just want to make one quick comment. You mentioned I missed this opportunity earlier, Tim, as you mentioned, the herd mentality. And then Greg, you mentioned it as well, the main question that will help you break out of that is how many people around you that are in your closest circles have what you really want? How many people that you know personally that are doing all the same things you are, actually have the results that you want? And if you can say with certainty, none of them, why would you continue to do the same things that they’re doing? It’s like you got to have uncommon goals and uncommon steps to get to those goals if you want the results to be uncommon. Otherwise, you’re literally in the same boat as everybody else and you shouldn’t expect results to be any different.

Greg Lyons (19:22):

 Joey, Joey, I really think that’s powerful and I’m glad you took a step back and you always hear that you become the five people you spend the most time with. When you look around that campfire at the five people you spend the most time with, and they’re not where you want to be financially, spiritually, mentally, all those different things, it may be time for a change. And there are different ways to do it. You don’t need a hundred thousand dollars in cash to get started. There are a bunch of different ways to do it, but that is so powerful when you look around and say, Hey, should I be doing this a little bit different? That’s fantastic,

Joey Mure (20:04):

And I would encourage you to join a mastermind or some sort of a group because of this very reason because if that circle doesn’t look any different than you, it’s time to find a new circle. And I’m not saying get rid of your friends. I’m saying when it comes to stewarding the money, well that you’ve been given, you got to find the right circles. So anyways, we love to be that for people, but just find your tribe wherever that is. But to answer your other question, my investor D n a, I’m an SS on the disc profile. I’m a steady, I like known easy things that just always work out. I do like to do syndications for the reason of, Hey, this somebody that I can know and trust and they’re going to do a good job managing and operating. I’m not a good operator, but my business partner is a high eye.


That means he likes to influence, he likes to be involved in things. And so together when we invest, it’s interesting. When I was investing before working with him, I was doing stuff like private mortgages because I came for the mortgage business. I knew what it was like, and I had people that said, Hey, I need a mortgage, and I had some capital, so I lent them directly, had all the underwriting in my brain. I’d done it so many times and I was like, yeah, this is a great risk. I’m going to take the risk. And was ended up getting 10% interest on 15 year notes and it was a good investment. Now, fast forward, and this is a cool thing about the investor D n A profile. You start doing business together with others and you can borrow their strengths and they can borrow your strengths, and now you’re stronger together in my opinion.


So we’ve done stuff like we started a land flipping business and now we’ve grown that to almost $28,000 a month in passive note income. We had a short-term rental business. We built from scratch with an operator. We paid for him to be trained, we paid him a salary and we built it to 27 units in just about 18 months. Now, we built that to the point where it was paying us somewhere around $80,000 to a hundred thousand dollars a year, and in three years we ended up selling that business back to our operators. So now we have a note income coming from that as an owner financed business. So I say all that to say we actually do our passive income report every single month. You’re happy to log to our podcast or YouTube and check out all the things we’re doing. But that’s just a couple examples. When you partner with the right people, you actually may get involved in things that you wouldn’t do by yourself. And so for me, that’s been starting businesses and having more influence in some of those things, but having to have operators in each one, that’s kind of our forte is building opportunities like that.

Tim Lyons (23:05):

Wow. Well, Greg, I mean I’m ready to do a lot more. I think we’re playing pretty small. When I talk to people like Joey, I just want to crawl into the corner. No, this is why

Greg Lyons (23:15):

It’s called junior varsity. Let’s call it junior varsity, but that’s okay. That’s okay. We’ll keep going.

Tim Lyons (23:21):

Listen, I always say when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. I think we have a teacher here, Greg, I don’t know. But listen, this is what I love talking about because how many people out there raise your hand if you’re listening to this and you’re driving or whatever, maybe you could keep two hands on the wheel, but who thought of ever starting a land flipping business that’s going to pay you no income for 10, 20 years, whatever it might be, however it’s structured. Probably nobody out there. Maybe there’s a handful of people. How about selling a business and collecting that income, right? I mean crazy, crazy stuff. And Wall Street has no part of that right now, right? It’s not a 4 0 1 K, it’s not a 4 57. It’s moving your cash, izing your capital in a way that you could either build your monthly income or equity or both.


And it’s an incredible way to go through life. And at the end of the day, I want to be able to, like Joey said, I want to pick up my daughters from school. I want to drop them off. I want to go to the gym. I want to talk to my brother Greg about business and finances. I want to do podcasts. I want to have influence. I’m also a high eye on the disc profile. I like to influence and have conversations and do all that stuff. But you know what? When I was working 80 hours a week, two 20 fours in the firehouse, maybe two twelves in the er, then maybe 15 hour night tour in the firehouse on overtime, back and forth, back and forth, I was never home. I mean, it was crazy, right? And that’s when passive income, there’s a hashtag out there, it’s called passive income is real.


And I can’t tell you, Joey, how many times people are like, Tim, how come you’re doing all this, right? You’re a New York City firefighter, you have a salary benefits, you have a pension. Not many people have pensions to look forward to these days. You were a nurse, you had a nice life, two vacations a year, retirement accounts, what’s up? And when you have had desire, and I love how you talked about vision, goals, dreams, and that fuels your motivation. When I had a motivation to be do and have more, and it wasn’t so I could have a Ferrari, it wasn’t so I could have a gaudy house or anything like that. And I talk about this all the time with my clients and Greg and our friends and family is options. I want to have optionality. I want to have options to do a podcast at 1230 on a Thursday with Joey from Wealth Without Wall Street.


That’s what my option is. So Joey, I love that. Where are we on time, Joey? I want to be mindful of our time. So we’re going to hop into the last three questions and whatever really comes to the top of your mind. I want to hear, because this is my favorite part of the show, the first question since you dump some real estate is if you’re at a cocktail party or you’re at a kid’s game or wherever you are, where you’re around people and you talk about finances and someone says to you, Joey isn’t investing in real estate just too risky, what would you say to them?

Joey Mure (26:21):

I would say for the person that has no knowledge, it’s super risky. It all comes back to even passive investing is not a passive sport. It’s an active participatory sport. If you haven’t spent the time educating yourself on the operator, right, the sponsor, the operator, the asset class, I love the fact that you guys are diversified in several different asset classes and you’ve found operators that like and trust and have done the research and figured out who those people are that are trustworthy. Like that to me is the most costly thing you can or can’t do when it comes to investing. Now, the same is true when I would say the flip side is if you’re doing the same thing, you’re just putting your money blindly into the stock market. That’s super risky too. The risk is associated with the lack of education and the lack of involvement. There just is no easy button to where you just put money somewhere and you just close your eyes and hope for the best. Those are not strategies, that’s hope, and it’s just never going to be a good way to steward your money.

Greg Lyons (27:37):

Now you have to be in charge. I mean, you really do. And just blindly doing stuff is never going to be the right way to do it, especially when it comes to investing, especially when it comes to your money because you’re in charge. And at the end of the day when you’re 65, 70, the only person to answer to is yourself. And that is kind of one of the most important things. And I wish Tim and I would’ve started when I was in my thirties. I was 40 at the time or so, and we would’ve been a lot better off. But anyway, the second thought is from Jim Rohn, a defacto mentor of ours, and he said, the formal education will make you a living and self-education will make you a fortune. What does that mean to you?

Joey Mure (28:24):

I mean, just exactly what my first answer was, right? There is nobody that will actually educate you on the things that we’re talking about today. You have to go out of your way to find those things. But once you do, and I’m assuming some things here, so you guys could correct me if I’m wrong, but you guys are in a position to share a message with people and opportunities with people because you put in the work, you put in the education it takes to then find opportunities and operators and trustworthy things that money will grow in that very few people will actually do. And so it puts you in a position to actually build opportunities for others and therefore get compensated. In the meantime, Russ and I did the same thing. We went on a journey of self-education. Building out this whole process has not been easy.


I mean, this has been, we started this in 2009, 2010, and we even had experiences before that that play into this. So this is a long-term deal of education, but what it’s turned as one of our passive income streams is we have a course in affiliates and communication like a community that pays us each month. That is a great passive income stream that we’ve created, but it’s all because we put in the work and educated ourselves. We went from reporting in July of 2020, this is no lie, $2,500 a month in passive income from all the different things we had done to today. We’re consistently over 50,000 a month and we’re reporting that every single month. That’s not on accident. That’s because of that. And a lot of that has been mistakes, but sharing mistakes and wins with the world has really paid dividends to us.

Tim Lyons (30:31):

I love that. And I love the transparency too, because money sometimes is a topic that it could be taboo. You don’t want to talk about it. You want to seem like you’re bragging. You don’t want to seem like you’re not as good as the next guy or keeping up with the Joneses. So people never like to really talk about money, but I love the transparency and because it could be motivation for what’s actually able to be done and what could you work towards. So I love that and I give you a lot of props for doing that. The third question, Joey, is one of my favorites, and I know that you probably have a pretty strong feeling on this, and I listen to a podcast religiously from Keith Weal, it’s called Get Rich Education, and he always says that being financially free beats being debt-free. And that segues into my next question. It comes from Robert Kiyosaki. You’ve probably heard of him, rich Dad, poor Dad, and he says something that can turn people off sometimes if they don’t know what he’s talking about. And he says that savers are losers and debtors are winners. Take it away, Joey.

Joey Mure (31:33):

Oh man, I don’t know if he saw, first of all, Keith is a great friend and we’ve been on each other’s podcast, super nice guy, and we are exactly aligned on this very concept because the end of the day, I’ll go back to what we first started with that financial freedom is passive income greater than monthly expenses. The only way that I would pay off debt is if the dollars that I had in my control to access were not going to earn me more on the passive income side because just think about that for a second. It’s just easy math. I’m not talking about what you were talking about before, Tim Dollar cost averaging and all these complex ideas that Wall Street gives you to make you think, oh man, I don’t really understand this stuff. Maybe I should just give my money to them and they’ll figure it out.


But the formula is so easy, right? I’m going to give you a very simple idea. I have $20,000 in my account right now, and I could either go pay off a car loan that is, let’s say it was $400 a month on that $20,000, or I can take that 20,000 and I can go and invest it. And let’s say in a short-term rental, we have some arbitrage. People that have gone and rented a unit put furniture in it, and they’re making on average $800 per room per month net. Okay? So let’s say that that $20,000 was going to be a three bedroom apartment that they’ve now turned into an Airbnb.


They have $2,400 a month that they could net from that $20,000. Would it make more sense for me to take the $20,000 and start the Airbnb unit or to pay off the car in that formula? It would always make sense to start the Airbnb unit to get the $2,400 a month to now cover the monthly expense of the $400 on the car. But what most people have been taught to do is take your $20,000 and constantly pay off the debt and they never add to the passive income side. So shocker, you’re never going to become financially free and you can never, this is the second point to that question. You can never pay off the cost of living. So by the way, in the last two years, have your medical expenses gone up, stayed the same or gone down going up? What about the expenses for your vehicle gone up?


They’ve gone up, right? Groceries gone up. Those are not debts. I’m not talking about your car loan. I’m talking about the gas, the oil change, the tires, all the things that go into your vehicle, those things go up. And whether you’re debt-free or not, the cost of living is going to be there and it’s going to constantly be increasing. So if you’re not trying to outpace it by building passive income streams, you’re always losing, always losing. And so debt freedom is going to be the last thing that I’m focused on is going to be on that formula alone, and I’m going to make decisions objectively based on that.

Tim Lyons (35:00):

Well, I love that. I mean, listen, I’m a big fan of Keith. He’s the first podcast I ever listened to get Rich Education still. It comes out every Monday. I highly recommend everybody out there add that to your podcast list. He does talk a little slow. I love you, Keith, but you talk a little slow. So you may have to go one and a half speed, but I still listen to it. I look forward to it every Monday morning. That’s pretty much what I do. And I have heard you on that podcast, and I knew that one day I’d have you on my own. So here we are. I would also just want to just stack on top of what you said, right? And we’re talking about good debt, right? We’re talking about good fixed rate debt or debt that can be serviced by the asset that you’re trying to purchase, right?


We’re not talking about taking out credit card loans and going shopping at the mall. We’re not talking about taking out loans and buying lot of tickets. We’re talking about taking out loans and funding and asset that’s going to put money in your pocket every single month. And if you could do that arbitrage and pay off that debt with that asset, that’s a win-win in almost every occasion. So Joey, I feel like we could probably spend the other two hours chatting, so maybe we’ll have to have you back on if you’re open to it. But in the meantime, how can people learn more about Wealth Without Wall Street? Where can they go? What are some of the services and masterminds I know you have and courses, how do they find all that stuff?

Joey Mure (36:22):

Yeah. Well, I’ll make it really simple. We’d love to connect with people, and we have a free community that you can join. It’s an app on your phone and they get access to that. You could just go to Wealth Without Wall Income Brothers, and we have, if you want to just talk to a coach, you want to look at one of our mastermind options or even just take a simple Financial Freedom Analyzer quiz to see where you’re at in terms of where to getting the financial freedom, you’re welcome to take that there. But yeah, I’d love to talk to you and just chat me up in the app. Tell me, you heard me on the Pagan Brothers, and I always love to talk to people.

Tim Lyons (37:05):

Well, I love that. And we’re going to have that in the show notes. So that’s Wealth without Wall Income Brothers. So that’s going to do it for this edition of The Passive Income Brothers podcast, and we look forward to serving you again next week. Thank you for listening to another episode of The Passive Income Brothers podcast. We would be grateful for your support of our podcast by giving our show a five star rating and review and subscribing to our show on your favorite podcast platform. Don’t forget to take inspired action after listening to this show so that you can start building out your passive income streams. Finally, head on over to cityside to connect with us and find out more information about how to get started passively investing in real estate.